Originally posted by LilPlayaJosh he wasnt talking about where its made, he was talking about who makes it... Isaac and alot of others are European and the Americans/canadians make most the other EA Sports games and they have no competition, no bugs and have the best game on the market.... He's just wondering why the developers for FIFA havent been able to do this thats all. Maybe its time to re-think who develops FIFA if FIFA 2005 turns into another disaster and get some Europeans/Americans/Canadians who know what they are doing.
It's all the leagues and players', all that authenticity, it makes it hard to iron out all bugs and add great BIG features.
Madden isn't as complex of a game.
NK.
__________________
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Football is far more complex a game to reproduce than American 'Football'. American 'Football' is quite a linear game, full of set-pieces and 'dead time'. Stop-start...stop-start... stop-start... Oh yeah, what a phenominal game!
Madden 2004 is a superficial 'show boating' game, with very little substance to it. I think the FIFA developers are far more accomplished than the Madden ones. Superficiality may appeal to people in the USA, but the British/Canadian and European developers, try to add substance to FIFA. Look at TCM 2004- an extraordinary game. It's great that one can 'fuse' the two games together.
NHL 2004 is a really well produced game, but Ice Hockey is easier than Football to replicate.
FIFA 2004 may not be the most faith reproduction of the 'beautiful game', but it's far more enjoyable to play online than Madden!!
As for FIFA 2005... I've learned not to believe the hyperbole, and wait for the actual game! Either way, and with the Exception of FIFA 2002, I've enjoyed playing FIFA 2001/2003/2004 online. I enjoyed FIFA 2001 and 2003 the most though...
The last thing I want to see is programmers/developers from the USA, interfering in a game that they know very little about!
Originally posted by Davilton
The last thing I want to see is programmers/developers from the USA, interfering in a game that they know very little about!
Thats a very ignorant statement.. just because someone is from the USA, does not mean they automatically know nothing about real football.
I wouldnt call Madden very superficial since it has one of the deepest franchise modes around.. and if you dont understand the sport then it may seem superficial.. I agree is set pieces all the time, but there are variables to it as well..
Originally posted by Davilton
The last thing I want to see is programmers/developers from the USA, interfering in a game that they know very little about!
Yeah keep telling yourself that you ignorant ass, I mean I'd rather have the best programers in the world whether US/Canadian or where ever than average programers who have a high soccer IQ... hopefully this year they will prove me wrong with FIFA 2005.
Originally posted by LilPlayaJosh Yeah keep telling yourself that you ignorant ass, I mean I'd rather have the best programers in the world whether US/Canadian or where ever than average programers who have a high soccer IQ... hopefully this year they will prove me wrong with FIFA 2005.
I said nothing derogatory about Canadians. I am actually from Victoria, BC. Not too far from a certain subsiduary of...
Originally posted by Davilton Football is far more complex a game to reproduce than American 'Football'. American 'Football' is quite a linear game, full of set-pieces and 'dead time'. Stop-start...stop-start... stop-start... Oh yeah, what a phenominal game!
Madden 2004 is a superficial 'show boating' game, with very little substance to it. I think the FIFA developers are far more accomplished than the Madden ones. Superficiality may appeal to people in the USA, but the British/Canadian and European developers, try to add substance to FIFA. Look at TCM 2004- an extraordinary game. It's great that one can 'fuse' the two games together.
NHL 2004 is a really well produced game, but Ice Hockey is easier than Football to replicate.
FIFA 2004 may not be the most faith reproduction of the 'beautiful game', but it's far more enjoyable to play online than Madden!!
As for FIFA 2005... I've learned not to believe the hyperbole, and wait for the actual game! Either way, and with the Exception of FIFA 2002, I've enjoyed playing FIFA 2001/2003/2004 online. I enjoyed FIFA 2001 and 2003 the most though...
The last thing I want to see is programmers/developers from the USA, interfering in a game that they know very little about!
This might be the largest set of incorrect sentences assembled since...well, since George Bush last cobbled together some Bushenglish in his last speech wherever he was...
Let's take these point by point.
(1) Replicating American football, in terms of individual AI, motion-capture, etc. is not harder, or easier, than replicating world football. Just as the latter presents challenges in terms of the continuous flow or ending movement of the game, the former asks for AI resultants of complex endeavours such as a swim move from a lineman, or a screen pass. Don't play yourself; Tiburon is working to reflect authentic American football, down to the differences in momentum relative to coefficients of sliding and starting friction on wet, muddy dry, turf and normal grass surfaces, and that is reflected in the code. FIFA Canada hasn't come close to sniffing that level of development, quite simply because the FIFA team lack both the capability and the will, or we'd have seen it by now instead of the trademarked gimmicks we see year in and year out.
(2) To say that Madden 2004 has "very little substance to it" tells me without question you haven't played it, or you've played a Madden in an alternate universe; the Madden 2004 game in THIS universe is the most immersive sports gaming experience available, period. From the owner level, on down, salary caps, stadium concession pricing, staidum construction, 30-year franchise mode, and this has NOTHING to do with the gameplay, which Tiburon mastered first, and keeps building upon. I'd specifically like you to demonstrate how the features of FIFA, or any other sports game, match up with the features of Madden 2004. In fact, I'll send you $20 via PayPal if you can demonstrate ANY FIFA of ANY year that has 75% of the features and options of Madden 2004.
(3) What's funny is that within the corridors of EA, worldwide, ALL the developers look to Tiburon and the Madden series as THE template for how games are developed. They did when I was in the industry (with Sega GameWorks LLC), and they do even moreso now. Hell, developers like Midway (NFL BLitz) looked to Tiburon as the standard when they were making stand-up ARCADE sporting games. SO to say that Madden is a "superficial" experience is not only to debase the development of Madden, but to refute the very sensibility and opinion of the vast majority of EAs own staff, and the gaming world.
(4) Its good that you've learned NOT to beleive the hype about FIFA games; that's one of the few cogent points you make here. What's interesting is your focus on online play, which of course is one of the spectrum of things that a game can do well, or do poorly, but certainly is no measure at all of whether or not a game fairly represents the sports it endeavours to reflect.
(5) Folks in the USA (where I'm from myself) who claim to know about soccer usually end up knowing ALOT about soccer (and please, no comments about the use of the word "soccer"...Gavin Hamilton's London-edited monthly magazine is named that (WORLD SOCCER), and its British-based and Brit-foucsed...), because its so hard to be a part of the world football community in America (relative to info on baseball, gridiron and basketball) that an American enthusiast must work VERY hard (even with the internet) to join the global community. I know that as a former department head of CONCACAF and a delegate for the confederation to the 2002 World Cup, that your rating of the supposed knowledge of Europeans and others over American enthusiasts is exaggerated, to say the least, especiially at the highest level. The reality I've found is that, worldwide, there is a slice of folk who know alot about world football, a large swath who know a little, and an even larger group who know nothing. This is true in every country; the US total numbers are lower than Europe, to be sure, but the percentage breakdown is all the same.
I hope that you will take me up on my paypal offer; I'd love for you to try and demonstrate that with a comparative features list (ANY fifa versus Madden 2004). You'll find that, in terms of FIFA's development, you and I have been comprehensively short-changed, on a yearly basis, ever since FIFA RTWC 98 - FIFA 99.
It's a sad state that should change; only the presence of PES on the PC and in North America (WE7I) is doing that. Let's sit back and observe FIFA 2005, but I'll bet that the fundamental change wil lcome, if it comes at all, in the 2006 year, not this one.
But we shall see.
__________________ Everything Educates: describing the ongoing effort to launch CitizenNow - an online citizen toolspace.
In addition, IMO, Madden 2004 and Madden 2005 (descirbed below) reflect what one can focus on when the FUNDAMENTALS of gameplay are MASTERED AND CODED FIRST...sick update on game/experience features…full article and pics here:
#1 - Storyline Central
After last years Ownership Mode implementations, it didn't seem like Madden's Franchise Mode could get any deeper or better, but man that assumption was dead wrong. Enter Storyline Central, the second phase in the ever-evolving Franchise Mode.
Every player has a story, each player has personality, wants, desires, and problems. Storyline Central turns a bunch of names and numbers into some semblance of real people. The two main components of Storyline Central is the Tony Bruno radio show, which can be listened to each weak. This is full on audio with Tony Bruno talking about events in the football world, asking for trivia, and even talking to football stars -- many of whom are voiced by their real-world counterparts. That's right, you'll be listening to the radio while adjusting your lineup for the week and suddenly Ray Lewis calls in the complain about how unhappy he is this season. Holy f'ing crap. And to think, that's just the surface of Storyline Central.
Along with the radio show (which can be switch to music if you prefer), there's also the weekly papers. You'll get both national and local newspapers offering headlines on the biggest games of the week and revealing player emotions. This season you'll need to fully manage your full squad of players -- their egos, their failures, and their successes. A player may come right out and criticize the team in the paper or you may read a report about player grumblings. And all of this comes with pics as well, making the newspapers basically a much more advanced take on the Sports Illustrated offering found in NCAA Football.
All sorts of other useful info can be found on your PDA with coaches and players offering up thoughts week to week. You'll also find a Positional Battle selection in the menu, which shows the level of competitiveness within your club for specific positions. In other words, you can now see how the starting QB and backup match-up each week. If you should bench a player more deserving of the starting position, you may hurt team morale. What's this -- team morale? Oh yeah, there's that too. Everything is an immensely intricate balancing act.
Players are individuals, like I said, and you can name team captains and even designate Franchise players. Wow. But more importantly there are marquee players. These are players like Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, or Junior Seau. Adding marquee players to your roster increases team morale, but more importantly it can entice free agents to sign with you and will help ticket sales. Think of the Cardinals. They signed Emmitt Smith an immediately they began selling more merchandise and more tickets. Some teams, like the 49ers will have no marquee players, while others may have three or more. The marquee status changes from year to year so that Phillip Rivers can eventually become a household name.
#2 - Defensive Playmaker
Hot routes for the offense became the big thing a couple of years ago. Send your primary receiving on a fly pattern if you see a hole in coverage, you know the drill. There's a lot you can do on offense and that remains true this year, however EA has leveled the playing field a bit by allowing for Defensive Playmaker Control, which essentially allows you to set individual defensive hot routes for every player on the field.
Defensive Playmaker can be used for overall D-Line shifts. Call for an outside rush, crash middle, or slant right or left. Linebackers can audible into hook zones, an all out blitz, or you can have the left or right outside linebacker blitz. That's nice and works easily enough, but the true test is when you start giving hot routes to specific DBs. Select specific DBs (this also works for linebackers in coverage) and you can switch who they're covering. Have them back off a receiver at the line, press the receiver, or double the receiver if there are safeties in zone coverage. You can also call for more general DB moves, like having defenders in man coverage line up with the receivers they're covering or even have defenders fake the blitz before dropping back into coverage.
It all sounds complex and at first it's a bit difficult to grasp. Once I had it figured out, it didn't take long to realize this was one of the greatest equalizers in all of competitive play. If you are observant and have a good sense of what your buddy is trying to run, you can adjust to it quickly. He'll be busy calling his own hot routes, so you should have time to cycle through yours. It turns into a mini-game as two players try to quickly adjust both defense and offense. You can screw yourself, as I saw happen a few times. You can get caught in the middle of adjusting and end up leaving a wideout uncovered, but those are the risks of trying to create a bulletproof defense.
Defensive Playmaker is where it is at for Madden gameplay this year. While it can be completely ignored and the game still enjoyed, those who take the time to learn the new moves should be very happy with the results. A lot of what Madden is doing this year is more in terms of tuning -- with defensive AI aggressiveness increased and better AI all around -- but this is one aspect that is very visible, easy to use (after a slight learning curve), and well-implemented within the flow of the game. Awesome stuff.
#3 - Hit Stick
Boom-shocka-lacka! Hard hits are one of the best things about football. Think about it. You can be chillin' on the sofa with your buddy, drinkin' a beer and casually watching the game, chatting about that girl who won't give you the time of day and then -- BAM! -- Ray Lewis lays out Terrell Owens with the type of hit normal men never recover from. Your attention snaps to the TV, your hand already on the remote, rewinding (thank you TiVo!) and watching again and again and again in slow motion. Big hits are as great as a touchdown, an interception, or a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader.
Now with Madden 2005 you have full control over the biggest hits in the game. On defense, flick the Right Thumbstick towards the player and your player will try and cream them. This works head on, when trying to smack the smile off a receiver going across the middle, or from the side, especially effective for trying a shoulder charge to bounce the ball carrier out of bounds.
It's not an automatic thing, however. You need to nail your timing when using the Hit Stick. It takes a few tries to get used to -- which is why there are preseason games, ya know -- but once you have a handle on the Hit Stick, it's a powerful weapon. No matter how good you are with timing, however, there will still be moments when you'll miss a hit. It's impossible to get every single tackle with the Hit Stick, making for a nice balance of risk/reward. The risk is missing the tackle and giving the ball carrier a chance to run to the house. The reward is that you can cause fumbles more easily with big hits and there are animations that can only be seen when you smack someone hard in the mouth.
While it seems obvious that the Hit Stick is going to be great for tackling, I found that it was more effective for creaming receivers across the middle. It's a very big risk to go for the monster hit on a receiver about to catch the ball, because if you miss, it's pretty much daylight unless you are lucky enough to have the secondary in position to back you up. But success means a vicious hit on the receiver, making it almost impossible to hold onto the ball. And you know, once that ball is in the air, it could just land in your linebacker's mitts.
Yup, the Hit Stick is a big hit.
#4 - Create-A-Fan
While NCAA Football 2005 has a cool Create-A-Sign option, big brother Madden goes a step further, allowing gamers to create their own fan. That's right, you get to make your own cheering moron from, literally, thousands of possible combinations. Your created fan -- sorry, but you can only make a single fan -- shows up in cut-scenes at home games as part of the cheering thrown. The fan supports all of the various fan animations too, so however you dress this gridiron diehard, he'll have a full range of cut-scene possibilities.
There are tons of options to create a very unique fan. There are different team unis to try out or your beer-belly buddy can go bare-chested. If you choose this option, make sure your team plays somewhere cold, like Green Bay or Chicago, so he can show true spirit cheering half-naked in the snow. And be certain to give him some sort of painted design on his chest, because that's how you get on TV.
The options don't end with jerseys. You can customize all manner of your fan, from headwear right down to what they hold in their hand. In the end, we had Benny the Bengal fan in full Bengal jersey with a mascot's head covering his grey fro and sunglasses. And sure enough, Benny was around to wave his hotdog as the Bengal's drove down the field for an inevitable turnover. Oh Benny, don't cry.
I like that EA has realized that it's not enough to merely adjust player stats and appearance. After all, there's way more you can do with a fan and all of the merchandise you throw on him gives the appearance that you're doing incredibly well in Ownership Mode. I wish that it was possible to make all four of the dorks that celebrate in he close-up cut-scenes of Madden, but having one is still cool. And heck, whether it's Benny of the Bengal's or Captain Morgan of the Niners, you'll always have the most stylish player in the stands.
#5 - Online Play
EA has yet to give the full details for online, but we do know it will be playable online for both PS2, Xbox, and PC. That's awesome for those three, but too bad for those three GameCube owners eager to play Madden online. Xbox Live support is, of course, a very big deal, but it remains just as important for PS2 owners. No, Xbox and PS2 players can't intermingle, but at least they can share in the same experience.
We do know that online support will include tournament play for up to 32 teams or a quick tourney option for 4-8 teams. The real-time ticker will also return, showing scores of real games and games of people on your Friend's list. Leagues haven't been announced, but expect it. What I dig most is the inclusion of the mini-games for online play. It's not really clear how all that is going to function, but I'm game for some training camp drills with by buddies.
Of all sports games, football makes the most sense for online, at least in my eyes, so I'm jazzed that Madden is finally on Xbox Live. I love ESPN Football, but truth be told, Madden has always been about playing with a buddy and I expect that the online translation will go a long way to making me feel like I'm cursing on the couch with my friends from San Diego, even if I'm playing them from the comfort of my home is San Francisco.
EA is planning to give the full skinny on online very, very soon with the promise of some things we don't know about yet, so look for that. It should be interesting.
This is the level of competence and commitment defectors from the FIFA series like myself have been expecting, given EA's clear proficiency in Madden, and even Live and NHL, and you can even say (if we're talking relative progress) MVP Baseball (as opposed to the abysmal "Triple Play" efforts).
We want the total football experience, but you cannot begin with BS features (that you give and take away from year to year)...you must begin with gameplay, and build on it from there.
__________________ Everything Educates: describing the ongoing effort to launch CitizenNow - an online citizen toolspace.
Originally posted by Mel Brennan In addition, IMO, Madden 2004 and Madden 2005 (descirbed below) reflect what one can focus on when the FUNDAMENTALS of gameplay are MASTERED AND CODED FIRST...sick update on game/experience features…full article and pics here:
[i]#1 - Storyline Central
After last years Ownership Mode implementations, it didn't seem like Madden's Franchise Mode could get any deeper or better, but man that assumption was dead wrong. Enter Storyline Central, the second phase in the ever-evolving Franchise Mode.
Every player has a story, each player has personality, wants, desires, and problems. Storyline Central turns a bunch of names and numbers into some semblance of real people. The two main components of Storyline Central is the Tony Bruno radio show, which can be listened to each weak. This is full on audio with Tony Bruno talking about events in the football world, asking for trivia, and even talking to football stars -- many of whom are voiced by their real-world counterparts. That's right, you'll be listening to the radio while adjusting your lineup for the week and suddenly Ray Lewis calls in the complain about how unhappy he is this season. Holy f'ing crap. And to think, that's just the surface of Storyline Central.
Along with the radio show (which can be switch to music if you prefer), there's also the weekly papers. You'll get both national and local newspapers offering headlines on the biggest games of the week and revealing player emotions. This season you'll need to fully manage your full squad of players -- their egos, their failures, and their successes. A player may come right out and criticize the team in the paper or you may read a report about player grumblings. And all of this comes with pics as well, making the newspapers basically a much more advanced take on the Sports Illustrated offering found in NCAA Football.
All sorts of other useful info can be found on your PDA with coaches and players offering up thoughts week to week. You'll also find a Positional Battle selection in the menu, which shows the level of competitiveness within your club for specific positions. In other words, you can now see how the starting QB and backup match-up each week. If you should bench a player more deserving of the starting position, you may hurt team morale. What's this -- team morale? Oh yeah, there's that too. Everything is an immensely intricate balancing act.
Players are individuals, like I said, and you can name team captains and even designate Franchise players. Wow. But more importantly there are marquee players. These are players like Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, or Junior Seau. Adding marquee players to your roster increases team morale, but more importantly it can entice free agents to sign with you and will help ticket sales. Think of the Cardinals. They signed Emmitt Smith an immediately they began selling more merchandise and more tickets. Some teams, like the 49ers will have no marquee players, while others may have three or more. The marquee status changes from year to year so that Phillip Rivers can eventually become a household name.
now why cant we have something like this?
Maybe its because there are so many players its not possible.
Still
Originally posted by Mel Brennan This might be the largest set of incorrect sentences assembled since...well, since George Bush last cobbled together some Bushenglish in his last speech wherever he was...
I had to 'cut' the rest, in order to help soccergaming.tv preserve its precious bandwidth.
Now, where should I begin...
1) Please, don't use a light-hearted internationally used forum, to pontificate in such a patronising manner. Your diatribe is largely based upon partisan, personal opinion- not statements of fact. Go easy on the thesaurus also!
2) Construct your postings in such a way, as to not exclude people who's 'mother tongue' isn't English.
3) This isn't really the place to demonstrate your 'book smarts': Spare me the amateur Physics/Mechanics lessons too.
4) Don't give up your day job, I think Geoffrey Chaucer can rest in his grave peacefully...
Originally posted by Mel Brennan In addition, IMO, Madden 2004 and Madden 2005 (descirbed below) reflect what one can focus on when the FUNDAMENTALS of gameplay are MASTERED AND CODED FIRST...sick update on game/experience features…
#3 - Hit Stick
Boom-shocka-lacka! Hard hits are one of the best things about football. Think about it. You can be chillin' on the sofa with your buddy...
Who is this article aimed at, crack dealers in da 'hood??
Originally posted by Davilton I had to 'cut' the rest, in order to help soccergaming.tv preserve its precious bandwidth.
Now, where should I begin...
1) Please, don't use a light-hearted internationally used forum, to pontificate in such a patronising manner. Your diatribe is largely based upon partisan, personal opinion- not statements of fact. Go easy on the thesaurus also!
2) Construct your postings in such a way, as to not exclude people who's 'mother tongue' isn't English.
3) This isn't really the place to demonstrate your 'book smarts': Spare me the amateur Physics/Mechanics lessons too.
4) Don't give up your day job, I think Geoffrey Chaucer can rest in his grave peacefully...
Thank-you.
Whoa. Easy. If you're not interested in what I have to say, then move on. but to bother to submit something like the above - an often-grammatically incorrect take on my use of grammar and vocab, which in and of itself, content-wise, is either defensive posting, or patronising all by itself (i.e., why are you the only one posting such a response, so focused on my use of language?) - is a waste of your time, and mine.
Can you address either the FIFA 2005 article, or my post's particular points? If you can, fine. If not, well, I'l just continue to enjoy the simple truth that you define nothing here, and thus folks can engage the topics they see fit, to the extent they see fit, by posting HOW they see fit, regardless of your fear, self-consciousness, or mooncalfishness.
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis
exponebantur ad necem. Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur...
__________________ Everything Educates: describing the ongoing effort to launch CitizenNow - an online citizen toolspace.
Hybrid Mode
